Mineral Oil Submerged Computer

[Markes12344]

Howdy,

Quick question about the submerged computer....

Was wondering if it could be applied to monitors.... either LCD or CRT.

Next week I have to create some visual art for one of my classes at university and thought it be could to have a monitor submerged in oil playing some footage of fishes.

I mean logical would say that mineral oil is not conductive so it should be a problem right?


Esentially yes it sould be fine. the only downside i can see to it is
A- oil moment disrupting clear image.
B- oil going into the gel of the screen. im not to familiar with screens and how they work but my basic understanding is there is a gel (hence when pushed on screen it goes discolored and rippled) and i am thinking the oil may get into the gel over time. so if it is for a class project for about an hour or so, you may get away with having the monitor in the oil.

[Hariharakadan]

Hello everyone. I have been looking over DIY kit and I am considering purchasing it but I have a few questions in regards to getting the "most" out of it.

1) Using heat sinks for all the components useful?

2) Has anyone attempted to focus the oil like they do on this image? http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/Resources/Images/3373.jpg http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/Resources/Images/3374.jpg

SRC: http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/ProductCategoryDetail_catDesktop_productReactor1.a spx

Just curious if that adding pumps and such as the way they do would improve the heating situation any.

3) Is there any need to worry about the thermal paste / heat sinks somehow leeching metals into the oil thus making it conductive?

Sorry if these questions have already been asked.

I don't plan to buy any pre-made computers from "Hardcore Computer" their parts are over priced and when its all said and done a high performance gaming computer is roughly the same price as a micro car that can get 50 miles to the gallon. So I hope this works out.

[ObiQuiet]

1) Using heat sinks for all the components useful?
3) Is there any need to worry about the thermal paste / heat sinks somehow leeching metals into the oil thus making it conductive?


For #1, I don't think you need heat sinks other than for the power supply, CPU and the GPU (video card). The heat transfer to the oil is like a heat sink enveloping all of the other components. So, just those two hot spots benefit.

For #3, I don't know, but I would suggest soaking your paste in a sample of oil for a few weeks to see if it dissolves. Even if it doesn't affect conductivity, the gunk would be worth avoiding -- it could cloud the oil. Instead of the paste, I've just use clamp-on heat sinks and fans to increase oil flow.

-ObiQuiet

[ObiQuiet]

Has anyone used one of these pico PSUs?

http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-PICOPSU-120/PWR-PICOPSU-120-manual-engl.pdf

It's rated for 85C and 120W.

Upside - It would make getting the PSU into the tank much easier. That was the part I spent most time and effort on -- rigging a way to connect it mechanically to the MB so I could move the whole PC as one unit without straining the connectors.

Downside -- the visual effect of having a full-size PSU in the oil is nice, with the heat sink and the large capacitors. I suppose one could take the shell off the power brick.

-ObiQuiet

[ragez0r]

alright.. i wanna dunk my dual core into some oil.. y not ?

this is what ive got done so far..

ripped out the guts of my computer and put em into a perfect sized aquarium.. cleaned off the dust might i add... got the switch... even bought an ultraviolet lightbulb :p


now mineral oil is an issue... cannot find any store in Montreal Canada that sells large quantities of this love juice.. ive tried Costco (the obvious choice), walmart, pharmacies, canadian tire and all im getting are funny looks.

so my next choice is baby oil...i can probably go to 2-3 stores and get at least 20 liters of baby oil.. so my question is this.. with all these things inside baby oil.. should i b concerned ? like aloe vera... vitamin E.. and secondly.. can i mix brands of baby oil ?

another question is... why do some people put silicon on the motherboards ?? seen this in some youtube vids.. should i be doing that as well ??

any help would be appreciated

[ragez0r]

or can i use vegetable oil instead ? its cheaper and easier to find

[ObiQuiet]

cannot find any store in Montreal Canada that sells large quantities

Order from this company: http://www.steoil.com/ Or, try a veterinary supplier catering to horses.
Will probably be cheaper per liter than small-quantities of baby oil.

Would not recommend vegetable oil -- it goes bad in time.

[ragez0r]

Order from this company: http://www.steoil.com/ Or, try a veterinary supplier catering to horses.
Will probably be cheaper per liter than small-quantities of baby oil.

Would not recommend vegetable oil -- it goes bad in time.

i tried steoil.. it does not ship to Canada im afraid... also i live in the city.. no idea where i can find a horse ranch ?? but anyhoo i ordered from ebay.. something called
"Mineral Oil Pure Formulary Grade 70 Weight 35 Lb Pack"

please someone tell me that it wasnt a mistake ...

high school science somewhat escapes me now...

[ragez0r]

bump

[Shivers]

Hey ragez0r. I happen to live in Montreal as well, and built my own submerged computer a little over a year ago (and it still runs great, facebook.com/album.php?aid=236767&id=677425653&l=064a50a48d (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=236767&id=677425653&l=064a50a48d)). I looked all over to find some oil, even tried going to a horse vet to get some (they use it to treat constipation & impaction), but no one had the ~25 liters I needed. I ended up finding it at Pharmaprix! I bought baby oil (which is just mineral oil), made sure to the get unscented, no vitamin e, no anything extra, and had the manager order me 45 bottles. It took a couple of days, but it was worth it. I bought them when they were on sale for 99¢ each, so it only came to about $50 with tax. That's probably your best bet.

The stuff you got off of ebay is probably fine too, if you make sure that the only ingredient is mineral oil, and that you have enough.

[{UGC}XBOND]

hey guys, xbond here, here are my pics of my tank ,yes it cracked i have no clue why it cracked going to rebuild !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trusselo]

i was thinking about this long before i found this fourm, i have some thoughts regarding different ideas and would love to hear your feedback.

1st why not use distilled water with water cooling additives. the additives and distilled water are NOT conductive! also water is lighter in weight than oil and wont crack open weak acrillic aquariums. and doesnt eat rubber/plastic. the water based solution would also be easier for the pumps to handle by being more viscous and would disperse heat faster. the downside would be refilling due to evaporation and keeping it non conductive.

2nd regarding heat dispursion, the pumps are a good idea to get the liquid (and heat) moving around but why not have the pumps "blow" cooled liquid directly onto the chips and/or heatsink? instead of just moving the liquid around, blow it at what needs the cooling.

3rd why not leave the power supply out? it adds ALOT of heat to the tank..
OR anyone think of using a mini wine fridge to cool a resovoir for the pumps?

[ObiQuiet]

1st why not use distilled water with water cooling additives.
IF you can make this work with water, I for one would love to hear about it. I'm skeptical, though, about the "not conductive" part.


2nd why not have the pumps "blow" cooled liquid directly onto the chips and/or heatsink?
No reason not to, though it does not appear to be necessary.


3rd why not leave the power supply out?
Again, no reason not to, unless one likes the look of having it in there. See an earlier post I did for "power brick" type PSUs that could make this easier in terms of running the wires.

-ObiQuiet

[ObiQuiet]

hey guys, xbond here, here are my pics of my tank ,yes it cracked i have no clue why it cracked going to rebuild !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a very nice-looking assembly! Have fun with the rebuild!

-ObiQuiet

[menasan]

so, Im very curios at to the sound levels of this type of rig. assuming that you didnt have a pump, and submerged your power supply, it would be virtually quite?

between that ant the oc capabilities, i must try


great thread, and great build.

[Shivers]

1st why not use distilled water with water cooling additives. the additives and distilled water are NOT conductive! also water is lighter in weight than oil and wont crack open weak acrillic aquariums. and doesnt eat rubber/plastic. the water based solution would also be easier for the pumps to handle by being more viscous and would disperse heat faster. the downside would be refilling due to evaporation and keeping it non conductive.
There's a BIG problem with this idea. That is that while pure distilled water is not a conductor, you won't be able to keep the water pure for very long. As soon as it mixes with any dust on the computer, inside the case, or simply from the air over time, that's the end of that project. Pure distlled water doesn't conduct, but it doesn't take much for it to become impure once again. Also, mineral oil is actually slightly less heavy than water for the same volume. Water is 1 g/mL, and mineral oil is about 0.9 g/mL. And as for eat through plastic, I've been running my oil computer for over a year now, and none of the plastic cabling has degraded in any way.



2nd regarding heat dispursion, the pumps are a good idea to get the liquid (and heat) moving around but why not have the pumps "blow" cooled liquid directly onto the chips and/or heatsink? instead of just moving the liquid around, blow it at what needs the cooling.
Of course! My setup has the cool air pumped back in right over the CPU (no heatsink or fan), and warm oil sucked out on the other side of the tank (simply to keep the oil moving around).



3rd why not leave the power supply out? it adds ALOT of heat to the tank..
You could, but it's annoying to have to put it somewhere otherwise. It's easier to put in if you remove the entire casing though. Also, it doesn't create nearly as much heat as the video card or CPU do.



OR anyone think of using a mini wine fridge to cool a resovoir for the pumps?
Yes, it's been discussed before, but it won't work, because fridges are meant to keep things at a stable cool temperature, and works under the assumption that the things inside aren't constantly generating heat. Your mini wine fridge will have to be cooling 100% of the time to try to keep the temperature down, and the motor will quickly die out.

[vzhik777]

Hello.
In advance I am sorry for the English because itself from Russia and has taken advantage of the translator.
Several months ago I for the first time have seen your videoclip on http://mobbit.info/item/2007/5/15/komp-uter-v-akvariyme-na-zhidkom-maslyanom-ohlazhdenii-video and ill.
Now in searches of a suitable liquid for assembly of such computer in an aquarium.
And at me one most important question: than mineral oil is worse or better some synthetic oil?
I think to apply such oil Transformer oil Пента®-ТРМС-110 http://www.penta-91.ru/transformer-oil.htm

Transformer oil Пента®-ТРМС-110

Transformer oil Пента®-ТРМС-110 - heat-resistant silicon-organic a liquid having a number of advantages before mineral oils:
Current-carrying carbon particles are not formed at electric breakdown and short circuit-flash,
Smaller dependence of viscosity on temperature
Higher stability to oxidation,
Smaller allocation of heat at burning,
, etc.

Transformer oil Пента®-ТРМС-110 chemically inertly, compatibly with many constructional materials. It is explosion-proof. Difficultly combustible. Products of burning do not contain poisonous substances.

Transformer oil Пента®-ТРМС-110 is not toxic, does not contain depressants, antioxidants, thermal stabilizers and other dangerous and toxic components. At hit on a ground in due course decays on sand, carbonic gas and water. At hit in an organism does not collect and does not render harmful influence.

Appearance A transparent oily liquid
Viscosity at 25°C - 50 mm 2/with
Viscosity at 50°C - 30 mm 2/with
Density at 25°C - 0,957 gram of/sm3
Factor of volumetric expansion at 25°C - 9,4*10-4 sm of 3/sm 3 * C
Mechanical impurity - are absent
Factor of refraction at 25°C - 1,401
Penetrative pressure - 50000 volt/2,5 mm
Tangent of a corner of dielectric losses at 25°C - <0,1 %
Acid number (mg KOH/г) <0,01
Volumetric specific resistance at 25°C > 1014 ohm *см
Dielectric permeability at 25°C, 100-1000000 Hz 2,7
Specific thermal capacity 1,46 Joules / гр *К
Heat conductivity at 50°C 0,15 watt/К*м
Temperature of hardening <-50°C
Temperature of flash in the open boiler > 300°C
Temperature of ignition 350°C

Like a normal liquid for a computer in an aquarium?
The only thing, that is not pleasant liquid all the same to me is has little bit yellowish shade and a small smell.

And these parameters in an apartment all the same are important: yellowness will give out itself for a liquid which differs from water. And a smell though it too hardly уловимый, but at the closed windows in the winter even with normally working ventilation all the same will stir.

As in this plan mineral oil behaves. And in general, what you will recommend to me, and that I have already got confused in a choice.

By the way, has interested this decision:
http://www.ixbt.com/news/all/index.shtml?12/64/03
http://www.realwire.com/release_detail.asp?ReleaseID=14283
http://gadgetblips.dailyradar.com/video/liquid-cooled-server-rack/

Somebody knows, what liquid is used?

In advance all thanks for answers and the help.
Once again I am sorry for my bad knowledge of English language.
Alexey. Kazan.

[menasan]

hahah i pulled the trigger

http://www.tank-depot.com/productimages/todd-wh-tank.jpg

im going to modify an 11 gallon rv fresh water tank.

[kevanesh]

grats!

but we want pics :compow


hahah i pulled the trigger...im going to modify an 11 gallon rv fresh water tank.

[menasan]

parts gathering right now...


so as i understand... the pumps made for water cooling, will not work inside the oil? im assuming that they need air? or can i submerge them as well even though it doesnt specify them as "wet"?

like this one

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=25707

[Pillarman19]

I read about the murky oil in version 1. Have you considered that this might be caused by the thermal paste?

[PCC-Jon]

Yes, but we washed the rocks before putting them in the V2 system, and it has been crystal clear since the day we filled it.

[menasan]

so it looks like i was wrong, i can use a pump meant for water cooling inside the oil.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/gfx/submersion/gallery/Oct2008/hard_drive.jpg

[menasan]

has anyone looked into automotive fuel pumps? those are 12v ;p

[masdecmeridio]

Hi,

first of all, compliments for this great idea! :)

1-Can you update the situation about the submerged pc? Last update was on June 2009!

2-Can you upgrade the hardware of the pc? I think that your system can handle the new NVIDIA GPU GTX480 with easy! I'm very curious to see benchmark, overclocking and temperatures in submerged condition! :)

3-Is there a way to change the mineral oil with something else? Mineral Oil should no longer be off the motherboard and other components. Siliconic Oil?

[stebu]

I know that you can't use a mini-fridge to cool the oil because a mini-fridge just isn't up to the job, but I had a thought...

Build the system in a large chest freezer, which has a bit more oomph to it. As filling 10 cubic feet with mineral oil would be cost prohibitive, I was thinking that adding a lot of dense filler (scrap steel would be good as it is cheap and dense) to give an extra level of cooling buffer to protect the compressor.

The three primary issues as I see them

1) Will a chest freezer have enough capacity to handle a computer? My guess would be yes (especially with the "cold battery" tactic above), as long as I am not running the computer at full capacity 24/7.

2) As I am not going to full the freezer to capacity with oil, condensation of the air above would be a factor. I am thinking that suspending a tray of dessicant above would solve that issue. This also gives the advantage of allowing me to have the hard drives in the freezer, also above the oil.

3) Viscosity. I am thinking that mineral oil at 0F (sorry, i can't think celsius) will be so viscous it would not circulate. Either finding an oil that works fine at that temp or modifying the thermostat so the temp is kept around 30F should solve that issue.

Thoughts?

[akelly999]

To answer some questions,

Don't bother with thermal paste, the mineral oil will dissolve it.

Distilled water, while nonconducting, WILL become conductive over time. Has in part to do with water molecules randomly separating into H and OH ions which do conduct.

Chest Freezer idea most likely won't work as mineral oil will most likely work its way through water drain in bottom of freezer, though you won't have to worry about mineral oil getting too cold.

Plastic WILL harden over time in mineral oil so don't plan on reusing any flexible parts once they are submerged in oil.

Having had a Mineral oil tank for 3+ years, I have seen almost no evaporation or water condensation so no worries there.

Vegetable oil can work but it turns rancid eventually.

Lastly, cleaning mineral oil is not much fun though dish soap + distilled water + lots of time = 99% clean.

[ObiQuiet]

Just had an interesting discovery, that's eluded me for a year. I had a persistent problem with oil wicking out of the case right around a USB connector. I couldn't figure out how to stop it -- none of the tricks for stopping capillary action worked -- and there was still a small amount of oil getting out.

Turns out that it was wicking INSIDE the cabling. All of my preventive measures were along the OUTSIDE. This is a bundle of thin wires twisted together which attach to the MB USB socket, and which lead to front- (now top-) panel USB ports. The thin wires are surrounded by a thicker outer insulator, but there is apparently enough gap that the oil seeps through. Imagine a long candle wick inside of a drinking straw.

So, I made an end-cap by applying silicon sealant.

Just in case that helps someone out...

WRT to plastic stiffening -- that's what makes the little video card fans fail after a while. They seize up. I now have a PNY card which has a larger passive radiator and no fan.

[HellionOverlord]

Why not add air bubbles that are bigger, like the oysters that open up and release a big bubble? Wouldn't that cut down on foaming? If I added say, 10 oyster bubblers to the bottom wouldn't the large bubbles hold more heat and release it better at the top?

[HellionOverlord]

Would adding copper dish washing scrubbie things with little floats to make them float in an oil bath cool the oil better than a radiator with the oil wicking upwards out of the bath of oil onto the copper? How about putting a radiator into a small refridgerator like truckers use? Would one be able to achieve a higher over clock percentage with the computer submerged in cold oil

[ObiQuiet]

Why not add air bubbles that are bigger, like the oysters that open up and release a big bubble? Wouldn't that cut down on foaming? If I added say, 10 oyster bubblers to the bottom wouldn't the large bubbles hold more heat and release it better at the top?

It would cut down foaming, but it won't help with heat exchange. Heat transfer is always dependent on the surface area. One big bubble has less surface area than N smaller bubbles of the same total volume. (As you take a big bubble and make N smaller ones, the total surface area available for heat transfer increases as a function of the cube root of N.)

Also, air isn't a good conductor of heat -- it has a high R value -- which is why it works in double-pane windows. When I measured the difference with bubbles and without, I got _maybe_ 0.1C, less than the measurement error of the thermometer.


Would adding copper dish washing scrubbie things with little floats to make them float in an oil bath cool the oil better than a radiator with the oil wicking upwards out of the bath of oil onto the copper?

That's a clever idea -- lots of surface area, copper is a great heat conductor, and it's a cheap source too. To make it most effective you'll have to make sure the copper is exposed to room temperature or colder.

[hello im sean]

hey guys im new to this forum but ive been researching mineral submerged pc's for a bit and ive heard some cases of oil getting trapped without circulation in tight places like between the pins uner the cpu. Im not afraid it will conduct electrical current but ive heard since there is virtually no flow under there the oil actually acts as an insulator and heats up the chip significantly regardless of the cooling you have going over top, this ultimately inhibits chip performance and can lead to failure. have you expericenced this? or maybe your compnents dont throw off enough heat for this phenomena to occur.

[Hawkwings]

Hello, all! Another first time writer here on the post.
I'm wondering if any one has ever submerged a ribbon cable like the one in the photo I'm submitting. It's the silver foil/ribbon cable left of center in the image.
http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2347-10877_11-41891-41915.html?seq=24&tag=content;leftCol

http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2347-10877_11-41891-41915.html?seq=24&tag=content;leftCol

Are there any adverse affects to the cable?

[ObiQuiet]

Oops, I need to correct this:


When I measured the difference with bubbles and without, I got _maybe_ 0.1C...

Looking back in my notes, I found that the difference was 2C. Two degrees. That's a comparison between no bubbling versus a "wall of bubbles" from a fish-tank bubble bar about 16cm long at the bottom of the tank.

Still not a usefully big difference, but much more than I remembered.

[kevanesh]

Bubbles are so cool. Different colored bubbles would be even more cool. Metaphorically, not literally speaking.


Oops, I need to correct this:



Looking back in my notes, I found that the difference was 2C. Two degrees. That's a comparison between no bubbling versus a "wall of bubbles" from a fish-tank bubble bar about 16cm long at the bottom of the tank.

Still not a usefully big difference, but much more than I remembered.

[Hogan]

So a couple of friends and I are probably going to be using the DYI-kits for this as a project for my new computer. Yay for being the test guinea pig. But first I've got a couple of questions:

I've got a huge Zalman 9500 CPU cooler on my computer as of right now. I can buy a mounting bracket from Zalman and just use the cooler again on my new build, but I'm curious to know if it would fit in the aquarium. The dimensions are 85 x 112 x 125mm. Would it fit?

Speaking of CPU fans, what is it exactly that you guys are using?

I've also noticed that you guys have mentioned that the fans only run at around 9rpms and that they really don't do too much. With that statement, should I just buy a passive heatsink and give myself some more room, or would that cause some heating problems?

And lastly, when is that new DYI-kit coming out? I would love to get my X-Box sized hands on it.

[Shajrus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgWos8uoErA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW89yBCaIGI

[PCC-Jon]

We like to use CPU fans that can use convection to move the oil through them. Arctic Cooling Freezer 7, Gelid Tranquillo, Scythe Mugen 2, they would all work well. You should be just fine without the fan.

The power supply should fit, but it is really tight and a pain. We're finalizing the V3 kit now, should be launching in the next few days...MAYBE even today!

[dk560]

Hi everyone, new here at the forums. I have one burning question I need answered before I pull the trigger into the whole mineral oil pc idea!

I've read quite a few times that thermal paste "dissolves" in mineral oil potentially making it conductive (if the paste has conducting properties).

Is this true? because PCC-Jon suggests using regular Arctic cooling 7 etc which contridicts that notion (or is the cpu sealed?)

What alternatives are there if its needed?
(thermal epoxy, ceramics, just the mineral oil, etc)

Anyone with experience with this that can shed light on the topic will be greatly appreciated!! :D

[BUBBA]

I've read quite a few times that thermal paste "dissolves" in mineral oil potentially making it conductive

well there are many schools of thought on this one,

what i have done is i bought a zilman cpu cooler (the big flower type) it came with a tiny tube of paste which i used the bare minimum of i thought i could get away with in an air cooled system, and spent a few minutes spreading it as thinly as possibe (also i didnt touch the gpu heatsink at all)

i believe that a "drip of water" sized amount of thermal paste in 20 odd litres of non conductive oil will have no effect .... and my system is just fine

[Tyns]

Regardless of your system build (submerged or not) do yourself a favor and get IC Diamond 24 Carat Thermal Compound (they also make a 7 carat version). Read the reviews out there, 3-5 degree celsius temperature drop from using this stuff w/o changing anything else. Oh, and to your point/question, it's made of powdered diamonds, which is non-conductive (yay pure carbon).

Note diamond's 2-5x better thermal conductivity over silver:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity#Experimental_values

[rickyjo]

I wish I had thought to remove the thermal compound from my unit before submerging it. I think there's actually a good bit on there x.x