Mineral Oil Submerged Computer

[PCC- Builder Dan]

Hello people!

I've got a couple of questions to ask (Yes, really!)

First, and mainly, would high-end synthetic motor oil work just as fine? I've got relatively easy (and free) access to low viscosity synthetic motor oil. Would it have the same degrading effect on rubber items? I figure it should be lower, but I'm not an expert in these areas. I know there's no conclusive answer as to what the long term effects of sumbersion causes, but someone might have a clue?

Motor oil should work just fine, we used the oil we did specifically because it's clear. Oil-cooled PCs have been made with vegetable oils, which have way more junk in them than motor oil.

And secondly, what does "Weather Stripping" actually mean? English isn't my first language, so I kind of got stuck on that one ^^

Weather stripping is foam, usually in long rectangular rods, used to seal around the edges of windows and doors. It makes the door (or window) wind-proof when the door is closed, so you don't get drafts coming in around the edges of the door. It's called "weather stripping" because it comes in strips, and is used to keep weather outside.

[Terial]

(New to this stuff)

Okay, so i had a question about cooling, there is something i currently use on my desk which i use to keep my drinks cool while i am on my computer. A USB beverage chiller, as seen in the image here...

Its "cold-plate" temp is about 45 degress Fahrenheit.
What do you think about using it to cool a mineral oil computer?
I think if you drop a few of these in the tank, it should technically reduce the oil temp dramatically.
It has an intake fan on the far side which can be kept outside the oil to pull in new air which will cool the "cold-plate"

Thoughts?

-Terial

[Smirnof]

1. Your little usb drinkplates won't work inside the oil. The device has to have a way to exchange heat, and if you put it in the oil it will make the surface of the plate cold and simply disipate heat into the oil from the other side (if it doesn't use a fan to do that job).

Now if you attached your drink cooler (or 4) to the bottom of the case in such a way as they made good contact that might do a nice job of it, or perhaps attached the 1 or 4 drinkcoolers to a nice big heatsinc and cut a whole in the bottom of the case and siliconed the crap outta it so the fins went up in the oil, that might do nicely. But i think you would get more effeciency (i can't spell) Hooking up a radiator. If you do that tell us how it works. Actually given that heat rises you might just attach the heatsincs to them and put them through the side or in the lid so they dip down into the oil (less sealing and less messy that way too).


2. Now my turn. I'm from a family of auto mechanics so this is where my idea comes from. the cooling system in a car uses coolant and needs to be replaced because heat breaks it down. My dad (mechanic for 30 years) theorizes that is like a 10 year + lifespan as far as a computers is concerned. Now the components inside your engine collect grime and crap by a process called electrolisys, which develops based on the electroconductive properties of the coolant. He tells me that some of the best stuff is toyota coolant because every coolant job he has done with that in it leave the parts very clean. (i haven't taken my voltmeter to the coolant yet because this idea came about over the weekend and i haven't had any chances to test the coolants electroconductive properties), but i was wondering if anyone else has played around with any kind of automotive coolants. Its my next project to try but i don't really have time right now.

Thats my idea tho, replace oil with some toyota antifreeze. I just figure maybe one of you will be able to do it before i do and post on it. Make sure the coolant isn't premixed with water.


3. Also, the post about the water and oil half and half idea, for 1, heat rises meaning your fins going into the water will not be very efficient and 2, i would hate for someone to kick my pc accidently and get a wave of water somewhere it shouldn't be... and 3... too complicated.


4. Has anyone played around with the idea of using silicon oil (expensive but won't eat away at rubber parts, and is the main ingredient of silicon grease... you know... that stuff they use to transfer heat from the cpu to the heatsinc...)??


Whatever design i find to work for me, my finished product will contian a pump and a heater core (like a radiator but very efficient, for the cars heater) cause i can get a new one from carquest for 23 bucks (wholesale), and a small fan. I just imagine that if the toyota coolant would work (meaning dielectric) it would do an excellent job being very thin and designed to move heat around.... just make sure not to get the premixed with water stuff.

I also was playing with the idea of using a fuel pump to move the coolant through the radiator... that would move some coolant around.... or maybe a windsheild washer pump... but ill probably just use a fish pump or a standard one for this perticurlar application.

lemme know what you think...

[Smirnof]

Almost forgot... Synthetic oil will still eat away at the rubber components... and won't give an advantage over cheaper mineral oil because it probably won't need to be changed for 50 years. However, given that you have access to it try it on some old hardware and let us know.

[kitizz]

yeah, I think it's worth a go if you have nothing to lose.
After doing some research about sealing up a CPU, did you guys use any bits of "foam" to cut off the CPU from the oil, or did you just put a bit of sealant around the base of the CPU socket?

Also, I'm still having trouble finding a Lian-Li motherboard tray anywhere other than that site, let along Australia.

Cheers, kitizz

[MattZani]

Hi, i joined because im really interested in doing this to an old noisy PC, and came up with a way to reduce the heat of the oil, and wanted to know if it would work.



it would need just the cooling pump from a water cooling kit, and a big sheet of copper, and basic solder/welding/glueing skills to produce. the enclosure uptop is to keep the DVD and HDD in the case, but out of oil.

this is what i'll do to my old PC if you think it will work, but i'll make a custom perspex case, rather than using a fishtank.

[kitizz]

Wow, i reckon it'd look very nice... but it seems a bit over tidious and complicated and somewhat impractical. But... how cool would it be to have oil and water in your pc, lol, so don't let me stop you!
I think I'm gonna keep mine relatively down-to-earth, with oil, a fan, passive coolers and if required radiator.

[washu9]

2. Now my turn. I'm from a family of auto mechanics so this is where my idea comes from. the cooling system in a car uses coolant and needs to be replaced because heat breaks it down. My dad (mechanic for 30 years) theorizes that is like a 10 year + lifespan as far as a computers is concerned. Now the components inside your engine collect grime and crap by a process called electrolisys, which develops based on the electroconductive properties of the coolant. He tells me that some of the best stuff is toyota coolant because every coolant job he has done with that in it leave the parts very clean. (i haven't taken my voltmeter to the coolant yet because this idea came about over the weekend and i haven't had any chances to test the coolants electroconductive properties), but i was wondering if anyone else has played around with any kind of automotive coolants. Its my next project to try but i don't really have time right now.

Thats my idea tho, replace oil with some toyota antifreeze. I just figure maybe one of you will be able to do it before i do and post on it. Make sure the coolant isn't premixed with water.


3. Also, the post about the water and oil half and half idea, for 1, heat rises meaning your fins going into the water will not be very efficient and 2, i would hate for someone to kick my pc accidently and get a wave of water somewhere it shouldn't be... and 3... too complicated.

I think you're mistakingly consider oil to act the same as air.

Hot air does indeed tend to rise through the atmosphere.
But oil would not "rise"; it will simply flow to another area (still in the tank) which has lower density (cooler).
The speed in which this is done depends on the viscosity of the oil.

The same can be said about air. The very reason that air raises is that the air density in upper atmosphere is lower.

This site explains is better than I do: http://www.sciencetheatre.org/ask_st/042496.html


I must admit the details of my design is rather complicated. But I need to stress that several of the things I added in the design are failsafe features.
I didn't say it's a simple idea.... hehehe


By the way, most people would not want their computer getting kicked around in the first place. It is not even a minor concern unless you're moving your computer around often. In which case you would not want to use any oil submersion in the first place. VERY messy to clean up, ask Greenpeace if you don't believe me

4. Has anyone played around with the idea of using silicon oil (expensive but won't eat away at rubber parts, and is the main ingredient of silicon grease... you know... that stuff they use to transfer heat from the cpu to the heatsinc...)??


Whatever design i find to work for me, my finished product will contian a pump and a heater core (like a radiator but very efficient, for the cars heater) cause i can get a new one from carquest for 23 bucks (wholesale), and a small fan. I just imagine that if the toyota coolant would work (meaning dielectric) it would do an excellent job being very thin and designed to move heat around.... just make sure not to get the premixed with water stuff.

I don't think it's such a good idea...
Some people have fiddled with this idea before.
Too much risk involved.

Yes radiator coolant are mostly dielectric. But unlike oil, they do not keep that dielectric property when they degrade.

2 Things will happen when the coolant degrade:

- There'll be short circuit all over the place.

- Electrolysis happens when 2 or more metals are in the same conductive liquid. When that happens it will eat away all metals (some faster than others). 2 different metals is all it takes. Imagine what happens with all the different metals in a motherboard construction. Not to mention the material of the heat sink and everything else you put in there.

You'd have to get a REALLY long lasting radiator coolant.
AND you'd have a hard time knowing when you'd need to change the coolant (before it's too late)

...unless, ... there is that alarm device commonly used in the reservoir of a PC water cooling system. It alerts the user when water don't touch the sensor. You can reverse the function to actually give out an alarm when the liquid starts conducting.

You can add another contactor to immediately shut off the main electrical line so you won't get short circuit in the motherboard.


To: MattZani

Your design is just a modification of my idea so I can immediately suggest improvements to it.

Please note that I design for long term use. I consider ease of maintenance to be more important than the initial effort required to build the system.

Let's see, I can foresee 3 problems with it for long term use.

1) Water evaporates, even in a sealed container.
Once it does that, at one point it will not touch any of the copper heat sink fins.

You might want to consider extending the heat sink fins to the bottom of the tank. Just punch some holes in em like a beehive to keep the water circulating.

2) You need a fill-bleed system outside your tank to be able to fill/drain the water. (I think you've already thought of this one so I'm just pointing out the obvious here just to make sure we're on the same page)

You have the pump outside just in case it fails and you need to replace it. Good point.

3) You'd have NO WAY to clean the water container manually (scrub the insides). This is the only real objection I got with your design.

I've got some experience with water cooling on PCs. You need to consider the possibility that there'll be some bacterial/fungi growth in there. More so if you're exposing the water to sunlight/UV.

4) I think you've read my previous post. I'm just reiterating this one to make extra sure you remmember. DVD/CD/HD drives MUST NOT be submerged in the oil.

[MattZani]

I see your point Washu, but this was a quick concept i thought of in 5 mins, there's always improvement.

Answers:

1) A top up via the pump is simple enough, but fins to the bottom will be added.
2) Basically the same as 1, the pump/cooling place can be filled up, its just a reservior from a water cooling kit.
3)the way to clean the water would be to disconnect the tube going into the case, and let it drain, then re-fill, maybe every 3 or 4 months? im not sure how you would clean the actual part in the case, there must be a tablet of some sort.
4)I know, the white is air, so thats a custom plexi shelf containment, that lets the Drive come out from the front, and look like its in oil, but its not.

I think with a few brainstorms, we could have an oil/water cooled PC, that may be able to stay at around 50oC if were lucky!

Trial and Improvement as always!

I typed this on the PC im hoping to do this too, man is it LOUD! and slow.....

[Smirnof]

Won't work anyways... i just came back from the shop and my ohm meter tells me that the toyota antifreeze isn't dielectric enough, or anything else we tried... If it would have worked you would still be talking about a 10 year + coolant change life... given that the envirnoment you subject tthe coolant to in a pc is much less harsh than that of an car... That and i imagine i will start having stability problems when its time to change the coolant... but alas its too conductive.

You ever get into a lake and the water is nice and warm and then you float out to deep water and swim down... and the water gets cooler... Heat rises. at least for water and air anyways... Im not sure how much it would effect anything given the design is quite small to begin with, and leaving 1 fan in the case (despite the friction) should be plenty to keep the oil temp constant.

And what did you mean by too much to lose with the silicon oil idea.. just because silicon oil is expensive or what... cause from my understanding its dielectric and shouldnt do any more harm than mineral oil... in fact it should do less in that it doesn't eat away at the rubberized components.

I also picture your water growing algea in the bottom of your pc... dunno how well thats gonna be, but if your going to go through that much effort you should put some fish in the water for fun... make sure you leave a space to feed them

Now if you took a radiator of some sort and ran some water throught it (radiator submersed into the oil) and used it as a heat exchanger and used another one outside with a fan on it you might have an efficient design, but i see just running the oil through a radiator (or in my case a heater core) to be simpler and more effective.

Another idea i was tinkering around with... how difficult would it be to say... i dunno.. spraypaint the components on your board... submers it in thompsons waterseal or something like that... then you could use whatever you want... the big downside is you would have to have everything plugged in and seal up around your ram and your videocard and your empty pci slots and your ide/sata cable and your power cable... and man that sounds like a pain in the ass. Just a thought for any more adventurious modders out there.